English or Bahasa Melayu for Science and Maths?
Updated 09-07-09: It’s now Bahasa Melayu for Science and Maths.
Warning: A long and wordy post. Brace yourself.
I had a long teh tarik session with Noktah Hitam and Aeropama on Friday night. It is a normal thing now, hanging out from 10pm – 4am. We bitched about many things that came to mind and oogled at girls at the same time. (yours truly did, not sure about those two.. I know they checked out a ladyboy sitting on the next table at one time 
)
One of the many topics we talked about was ‘English or Bahasa Melayu as medium for Science and Maths?’ Yes, we talked about such things over teh tarik, because we need to pretend we are smart people and care for the nation. We also talked about Nora Danish, Emilda Rosmila and cheongsamlover’s blog but I will spare you the unnecessary gossips. (We can always arrange for another teh tarik session for that)
This topic has been going around for so long, often politicised and used by self-serving politicians to fish for votes rather than serving the nation’s interes and looking at the bigger picture. Our fickle minded government and its famous policy of flip floping to gain popularity has caused many problems to students and parents. The government should stop toying with the future of the nation by experimenting with such important policy, treating students as guinea pigs. (Hear that Hishamuddin Hussein?)
I am agnostic on this issue. Both English and Bahasa Melayu language has its own advantages and disadvantages. I am actually advocating for finding ways to improve its implementation instead of doing another U-turn. Allow me to generalise here, by making blanket statements for both proponents and opponents for English or Bahasa Melayu as medium for teaching Science and Maths.
Bahasa Melayu
1. It is our national language, it’s our duty to uphold it. If we continue using English, what will happen to Bahasa Melayu?
2. It is easier for students from rural or non-English speaking background to understand the subject (especially Malay students). If they cannot understand English in the first place, how are they going to understand Science or Maths concepts?
English
1. It is the lingua franca.
2. It is the language of knowledge.
After much deliberations, taking into account of my own experience and points raised by Noktah Hitam, Aeropama and some other friends, here is my opinion.
There is no right and wrong or clear cut answer for this question. It is not fair to pick one language over another because I think the actual issue here is about which language is better or more effective to teach Science and Maths.
The objective of teaching Maths is to impart Maths knowledge to the student, likewise for Science. The teaching of the subjects should not have anything to do with the language. Let the teachers use whatever language would better serve the students, whether it be Bahasa Malaysia, English, Mandarin or Tamil. As long as the objective of imparting knowledge of Maths and Science is met, then language shouldn’t be a barrier.
Now on the issue of falling English standard among Malaysian students, hence the decision to teach both subjects in English. The real cause of falling English standards among Malaysian students is the way the English subject is taught, it is the syllabus itself. The problem lies with the implementation and most important, the educators.
Stupid teachers create stupid students. You have merit-less students making it to teaching schools or universities, become teachers just to fulfil certain quota, this is what you get. Idiots beget idiots. In the very first place, to improve English, improvement should be made to the English syllabus, not making other subjects as scapegoats.
I am going to repeat it again, IT IS NOT THE LANGUAGE THAT IS THE PROBLEM! The problems are the teachers and the parents. The teachers are not interested in teaching the students and in the students’ future or they are too dumb to teach and parents don’t spend time with their children to encourage them and help them in their studies but thinking that by sending their kids to tuition classes, it is the sure work magic solution to get good results.
We should just keep the Bahasa Melayu as the main language for education, just like last time and find ways to improve the standard of English, rather than making stupid decision of just teaching Science and Maths in English. Why not History? Geography? Not that important? Huh! It is pointless to debate on what language is better really, we should learn both languages, or as many as we can.
But, since we already walked down the lane for the past 5 years, let’s keep it that way and stop flip flopping. it will do no good, this flip flop policies. Be firm. Bahasa Melayu or English? Stick with one.
That said, I am against the decision to gamble our students’ future again by changing it back to Bahasa Melayu. Keep using English as medium for Science and Maths. Just make necessary improvements to the current system. Making an U-turn and start again with a totally new policy, is a waste of time and stupid. Gradual changes to the continuing policies is acceptable, but abrupt change of policies should be avoided.
Now, if I am the Minister of Education, here are the things that I will do. If I become the Minister of Education, lah!
1. Revamp the whole education system and make English the main language for our education system.
If you teach the subjects in Bahasa Melayu, at one point you will still need to switch back to English especially when you are continuing your tertiary education. This is based on my own experience. Imagine knowing ‘jisim’ for all the years only to know it means ‘mass’ in English? How about ‘penghabluran’? Crystalisation anyone? Reference books in Bahasa Melayu is very limited, and if any most are directed lifted/translated from English books. So you want to read the original or the translated version? Mind you, reading Bahasa Melayu translated books especially forsubjects like Science and Mathematic is extremely confusing.
Now, some people opiniate it is easier for you to change to another medium of language when you are going to do your tertiary education. I do not agree. It is only true to certain extent. For some, it is easier because normally those who are qualified for tertiary education are considered ’smart’ students and they are fast learners and can pick up new language. It is still a hassle, imagine using Bahasa Melayu as medium since Primary One to Form 5 (almost 12 years), only to change it later.
I believe, if you expose students to English language since Primary One or kindergarten, there is absolutely no problem for any of the student to understand the language. Yes, they may have problem going back home asking their parents for helps in their homeworks if their parents do not understand English. But, this is not actually a problem.
Back in the old days, there were many illiterate parents but they still ‘produce’ successful sons and daughters. My father cannot read English and Bahasa Melayu, my mother cannot understand Bahasa Melayu. I am a Chinese, so based on this argument, I should have problem understanding Bahasa Melayu and English, since I had nobody to teach me back home because I am neither from Bahasa Melayu or English speaking background? Somehow, I think I am doing fine??
The problem lies with the teachers. We must have good teachers, regardless of what language is used to teach. If we are going to use English as medium, make sure all the educators are capable enough to teach in English. If they are not, send them for courses, make them master the language inside out before they are allowed to teach. without the proper command and understanding of the basic English language, how are they going to teach the students? If teachers are still not competent to teach in English, the blame lies with the Education Ministry and the incompetent teachers. After so many years, they could have produced thousands of teachers who are trained to teach using English.
Blaming the students from small towns and kampungs unable to grasp the English language is basically covering up for the teacher’s inability to teach in decent English. Well, that is what we get when most of our new current batch of teachers are those jobless grads who cannot speak decent English and hence had to join the teacher’s college in order to make a living.
Children are like sponges and they absorb any information taught to them very easily, provided the teachers know what they are teaching in the first place. So, let the students have their subjects taught in English from the very first time they set foot inside the school and get good teachers to teach them.
Then we will have no problem of students finding it is hard for them to switch from Bahasa Melayu (or Mandarin and Tamil) to English if they continue their tertiary education. But, by doing this we have another problem – putting Bahasa Melayu at its disadvantage as a national language. I will deal with this point later in this post.
Using English as medium suits well in our multi-racial country, as it does not discriminate any race. The Chinese cannot say the government is eroding Chinese language and identities, same goes to the Indians and the Malays. But, I am damn sure there are many who will come out and politicise this issue saying it is another form of Western occupation, degrading and insulting the national language. Some extremists will again bring out the issue of Malay Chinese, Indian supremacy, rights and priviledges. Supporters of Bahasa Melayu for sure wills say by using English as the main language in school, it will weaken Bahasa Melayu. My head, Bahasa Melayu has so many words borrowed from the English itself, as well as many words from different languages. These scumbags can rot in their delusional communal shitholes. Just please do not politise the issue.
2. Only one type of school, that is National School.
I am proposing for just one type of school – national school with English as the main medium and other languages as second language/elective subjects. The Malays can bask in the pride and glory of Bahasa Melayu, the Chinese and Indians can go about protecting and keep their ‘cultural identities’ that way. You still can learn your Tamil, your Mandarin. I will throw in Spanish, Japanese, Korean if the budget allows me to do so, so you can watch yor favorite dramas at ease. Come on, you are not going to be less India, Malay or Chinese if you are using English as the main language at school or by learning other languages.
In relation to this, Bahasa Melayu must also be taken as a compulsory subject, acknowledging it as the national language. It is important for all the students to master Bahasa Melayu as well in order to preserve its status as the national language. Any correspondence with the government must be carried out in Bahasa Melayu. To make sure students master Bahasa Melayu, a set of requirements must be meted out say, a student must score certain passing mark in the basics of reading, writing and speaking the language. By doing this, hopeful we can uphold its status as our national language.
Bahasa Melayu has yet to put itself as a language of knowledge to be taken seriously. Ask yourself and be honest, are we really equipped linguistically to use Bahasa Melayu for Science and Maths? This is the most important question to ask. Are there enough reference books written in Bahasa Melayu for our students to refer to?
But, this is a tricky situation. If we are going to introduce English as the medium for teaching, Bahasa Melayu will remain as nothing but ‘cosmetic’ and this is sure not going to help to make it is as a language of knowledge.
Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka (DBP) needs to do some soul searching here on how to tackle this matter. We need more linguists, more publications in Bahasa Melayu especially on technical subjects. Translating directly from English reference books is totally unacceptable. Even the terminology used are borrowed from English pronunciation. For example, biology and biologi. An English dictionary at least states the etymology of the word as bio- life and -logy study, sadly the Kamus Bahasa Melayu says nothing. The correct word should be Ilmu Hayat, idiots. Hire me to work for DBP better.
So, DBP must do its job properly and politicians must stay away. Nothing good comes from the politicians, especially from Malaysian politicians which most of them can’t even string a proper sentence in Bahasa Melayu or English to begin with. Some can’t even converse properly without the ‘aah… err….eee… uuhh’ ‘you know…’ interjections. Look at the debates in our august house, see any good parlimentarians that able to articulate their points properly without reading directly from the prepared texts? Idiots.
No matter how, if we are sincere enough to make changes to improve the usage of Bahasa Melayu it can be done. Look at the Japanese, Korean, Chinese, and many other countries and how they incorporated their language in Science and Math.
3. Do away with too much emphasize on exam-based education system. Get rid of those cut-throat tuition classes that thrive on this policy.
Hmmm, I am going to continue this post in other time. This post is getting super long and I bet many of you collapsed halfway reading it. Stay tune if you want to hear more from your future Minister of Education hahahahaha!
ps: As you can see, there are some changes to the blog’s layout. Thanks to Noktah Hitam, my blog is looking sexier and hotter now! Hurray!!
Tags: Bahasa Melayu, Blogosphere, Education, English, Malaysia, Opinion
NoktahHitam wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Yeay! Finally your version.
I cannot agree with the fact of English as main medium. Malay language will fade away and I do not foresee English as our national language in the future.
Speaking and writing English should be a novelty. Those who can, can, those who cannot should just remain in their cocoons. If everybody were to chase after globalization, who’d cater the Malaysian market if not Malaysia itself? I shall refrain myself from blurting more. I will write a post on this.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Malay language will not fade away if actions are taken – (My point on DBP) to improve the language. It will always remain as the national language. By making sure people use it for official correspondence with public sectors, in a way people will still learn it. But, all of things, first DBP must do its job properly.
Language should not be a novelty. This will create an elitist group, which is unhealthy for society. Already we have these notion ‘English speaking people = superior’ among Malaysians.
I am waiting for your post on this. We always can agree to disagree. It is boring to agree on things most of the time. Damn I spend quite some time to write this post, which is totally opposite of what I talked during our teh tarik session. But the essence still there, I hope.
ps: Now you should have more points to slice in your post later.. (not that you need any guidance anyway haha!) especially those that I already mentioned in this post heheheeee…..
Thanks bro for revamping my blog’s layout. Much appreciated.
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Bengbeng wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 4:05 pm
send this article to malaysiakini for greater exposure
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I may need to complete my post before I do that.
ps: I have few articles there, if you noticed
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BobbyT wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Hi well met NoktahHitam and Bongkerz,
First of all, excellent opinionated post. If 1 mamak teh tarik outing can result in such a post, then I hope you will have much more sessions in the future
Also nice to know that blogging seems like a true hobby now, with friends meeting up and chatting about blogosphere, I thought only futsal kaki does that but obviously you’re some part of that too, hehe. For 1 thing, I strongly agree that tuition class is excessive and expensive.
Lastly a change will be hard to come by, unless if somebody can profit along the way. Maybe you guys want to discuss about “the cost of conducting Science and Maths in English” in your next session.
Peace and wish all the best to current and future Malaysian students.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Hello Bobby T,
Thanks for dropping by. We actually talked about many senseless things, it is harder for me to articulate my points verbally, so I decided to write a post and encourage more of like-minded people to discuss on this issue.
Tuition class, should not be there in the first place if students get adequate attention and education in school. Worst still, now you have tuition classes advertising their services along the line ‘Straight As result guaranteed’, ‘Accurate SPM, PMR, UPSR spot questions by our tutors’. What an insult to our education system, students are sitting for exams just to pass nowadays? How many As? Exam questions available for sale?
Everything is about money, eh?
ps: It’s been a while since I played futsal. Sigh!
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kenn leandre wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 5:06 pm
firstly, define Bahasa Malaysia. Learning the language in school, at times i’m perplexed whether i’m learning multi languages during BM , or it’s strictly Bahasa.
words like “kompleks” and “proses” are acceptable into karangan papers.
i think the only medium that should be retained and taught in BM is BM alone. As not to lose out national language.
But for Math and Science, and quite possibly all other, are to be taught in English.
How many of us, regardless our prowess in English in secondary school,got caught off guard when they bumped into English terms in Uni /College teaching? Spoken English, and technical english are totally different.
Sure the fast ones had it a little easier to adjust, but in general, it’s a hassle for the students. At least have a technical English session in the syllabus might be of help. albeit insufficient one….still a good start.
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ErnieJean wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Actually, if I’m not mistaken, according to my daughter’s 2008 syllabus, it is “Bahasa Malaysia” all over again…..they can’t even decide what they wanna call the national language…..sigh……
Yes, I think the major revamping to do in our Education System is GET TEACHERS WHO CAN ACTUALLY TEACH!!!!
Once, I heard a TESL undergrad making more grammar mistakes than my 8 year old child, over at national radio……
How, like that?
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kenn leandre wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 5:16 pm
lol. i think i know why : TESL – Teaching English (Engreeeesh!) as Second Language….not necessarily have proper english when speaking..ehehe
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 5:22 pm
We live in a confusing nation. Bahasa Malaysia, or Bahasa Melayu? Kompleks = rumit and proses = aturcara/cara, should be the correct word. Damn these people simply translate.
You tell me, I was having hard time reading reference books in English for subjects like Physics, Chemistry, Advanced Maths.. the technical terms totally different.
I say, start it young. Bahasa itself as a language is not attractive enough to be used as the language of knowledge, so we have no choice but to keep using English.
This is a tough subject to talk about. National language = pride of the country. English = globalisation, business language. There’s no right and wrong, I just hate the flip flops policy.
You want to do Bahasa Melayu/Malaysia, do it all the way. Make sure from primary, secondary school to tertiary education you have proper Bahasa Melayu reference/information for all the subjects. (Public schools and universities best places to start)
Then find ways to improve or maintain the standard of English and make sure the students are well prepared to switch to English if they need to continue their studies in English medium, especially for their tertiary education.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Get TEACHERS WHO CAN ACTUALLY TEACH!
That’s the only important point, really.
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snv wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 5:28 pm
If it wasn’t such an interesting topic (interesting to debate about anyway), I probably would have passed out at the length of it. Good job in getting this out.
Although I see your point on the wishy-washy mind of the government in terms of making is hard for the students, I still think that using Bahasa Malaysia (or is it Melayu?) as a teaching medium is still relevant (for Science, Maths, and everything else, except other languages). I may not be able to foresee so much into the future on how the next generation will be with making English as a medium for education, but I do think that it will mar the efficiency of Bahasa Malaysia amongst Malaysians. There are not enough grounded (patriotic, language-lover, etc) Malaysians in my opinion, to keep the language alive, if the roots of learning (schools system especially) is ran fully in English.
So unless everyone matures up, and know the importance of roots, heritage and origins, we still have a long way to go before transforming into full English medium.
Then again, we all have our dreams of running the education system.
Hope to see the next installment.
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kenn leandre wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 5:28 pm
beaker: BIKAR!
conical flask : KELALANG KUN! (or was it Kon)
I thought “PENUNU” was the dumbest name for a lab instrument.
scrape the current syllabus, in with the new.
I remembered once, we got this Chemistry test , an Australian Chemistry paper thinngy. Same level. One of the best Chinese girls (normally scored 90+) flunked cuz she was totally blur on the translations.She didnt know what Lime water (Ca(OH)2- calcium hydroxide) was.
wat was the malay name…err.. nanti i go check. i know it sounded totally ridiculous..
imagine if this was an entry test thinngy.
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NoktahHitam wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Wow, I can’t believe what I read (the comment). Most are self centered. They only give a damn about their education and how they excel in their future undertakings.
Bahasa Jiwa Bangsa! Bangsa Malaysia will cease to exist if we can’t unite ourselves and kids.
I maybe one of the few brightest student in Malaysia scoring straight A’s for my A level at Nottingham University. It’s a matter of bright or not, understand or not, not memorizing the terms whole-heartedly to pass exams.
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suituapui wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 9:17 pm
‘…we are the smart ones…’ you say? I rest my case!
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|1f34|-|1r3 wrote on Nov 17, 2008 at 9:30 pm
English and Malay are just languages. Math & Science are different. You need to fry your brain for it. On the take for Science and Math in English, it will be much easier for the students to learn in Malay instead of English. But on the point for difficulty in the transition from Malay to English in Math & Sc, maybe we can fix that through the text books. Use English text book instead of Malay text books, let the teachers & students translate themselves, enhancing their vocabulary in English…but let the main medium for the teaching in Malay so as to be understand the subject itself. Just my 2 Cents Bong !
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NoktahHitam wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 2:54 am
copy and paste from NH to bongkersz. You do know both of us wrote differently.
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Brian Barker wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 5:54 am
I believe that the attempted dominance of English, as a world language, is contributing to the extinction of minority languages. A non-national, neutral, language could eliminate this by placing all languages on an equal footing. There is an alternative to English as the dominant World Language, and its name is Esperanto.
Esperanto is now within the top 100 languages, out of 6,800 worldwide, according to the CIA factbook. It is the 17th most used language in Wikipedia, and in use by Skype, Firefox and Facebook.
Native Esperanto speakers, include George Soros, Ulrich Brandenburg the new German Ambassador to NATO, and World Champion Chess Player, Susan Polger.
The World Esperanto Association enjoys consultative relations with both the United Nations and UNESCO.
Evidence can be seen at http://www.lernu.net
An interesting video can be seen at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8837438938991452670
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jingoisticbuthornydesperado wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 7:40 am
To everyone (specifically Noktah Hitam)
Losing BM as a national identity because Science and Maths are taught in English is just a histrionic bugaboo, in my humble opinion.
Education is important, even if it means using english in economically beneficial subjects. One can always have the homework to read, collate data and analayse text from english books but making a Malay presentation. of course, it doesn’t have to be fixed roles for both languages, the roles can be reversed. This way we kill two birds in one stone.
Education leads to economic prosperity. without economic prosperity, what is going to be our bread and butter? BM alone? I wish I can eat my own words without trying to earn a living, pun intended. teaching science and maths in english isnt going to make BM go extinct. There is always poetry, local judiciary process, public bureaucratic procedures, Siti Nurhaliza and our local poster boy, MAWIIIIIIIIIIII! Okay, okay, it is a chutzpah for me to scream out for Mawi.
Who would cater for the Malaysian market if there are no BM users. Unfortunately, Malaysians are not Chinese in China (pardon me for being emphatic about the latter to prevent causing unwanted confusion with chauvinistic Malaysian Chinese). With their (chinese in china) stupendously gargantuan demand power, foreigners who want to do business with them have to kowtow to chinese language. Malaysia unfortunately is neiter the supply superpower or demand superpower. Malaysian economic prosperity is based on export rather than domestic demand push economic growth. in a dog eat dog world, we have to learn english to maintain (if not decay into oblivion) one of our economic advantage which is/was the language barrier or rather, the lack of language barrier with foreigners. we may not beat china in demand power but at least we do not just surrender to china with our white flag, give up on english, making malaysia even more economically unattractive than it already is.
my selfish instinct wants to stick by libertarian principles. that everyone is free to do what they want to do. and if others are stupid enough to cocoon themselves, it will be their fault. unfortunately, one only gets more freedom to choose wisely from having more knowledge. and the excess to knowledge is restricted by wealth. In this specific case, i would stick by to Marxist and Confucius principles. According to the former, Individuals aren’t exactly ‘free’ to do what they want, they are to a certain extent controlled by the level of ignorance laid upon them. and for the greater good of the society (a combination of Confucius and Marxist schools of thought), I would probably incorporate English into Science and Maths classes though not necessary to replace BM completely. Free people from the ignorance-induced limitations. that is true freedom. i believe THE JOB that should be done is just to create a ‘no holds barred’ environment. only upon doing as such and if there are still some who like to cocoon themselves, it will ultimately be their responsibility.
As for improving the standards of BM
1) leadership by example. If our PM or any of our other politicians are great orators or writers. They can revive the interest in BM. Astound them with beauty of the language to arouse the public interest in the language lieke SHakespeare, Barack Obama, Winston Churchill. They learn from their leaders and idols, and they will quote beautiful phrases from their leaders while learning.
2) cooperate with indonesia in area of science. Teaching english in science and maths classes doesnt mean we cant publish papers in BM. not just any papers, but scientific journals on say palm oil technology where Malaysia has got a decent head start. This will encourage a greater number of cross referencing in Malay between both countries increasing its usage. people will be willing to put in some extra effort just to get hold of the knowledge from a good science journal. it doesn’t matter if they employ a translator to do the job. if they do employ, they also create a demand for BM/English linguists for translation jobs, increasing the use of BM.
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jingoisticbuthornydesperado wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 7:43 am
Ah fark, grammar mistakes. typed too quickly, will repsot them in the dandelions blog
http://thedandelions.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/science-and-maths-in-english-or-bahasa-malaysia-part-3/
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suituapui wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 7:45 am
Plagiarism, you mean, NH? :down: Of course, there is a difference – the difference between Nottingham and Uitm, and then there is also the place of origin, the hime background, the growing up environment, the school environment, the peers, the interests and the exposure to the language and the culture etc etc etc…! For everything, most people only look at the superficial only and they miss the wood for the trees…
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Woof-woof wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 8:11 am
Gr8 post, Bongkersz!!!! :up: :up: :up:
This debate has been going on for as long as I have lived in Malaysia and there is yet a common consensus to be reached
Malaysia, 50yrs on is still a country that struggles with its identity due to largely to its racial mix…the enduring problems in the Education system r testament to this, I feel.
Will doing away with BM based schools threaten the country’s identity further? I dont think so. We are heading twds globalisation, whether we accept it or not and the sooner we come to terms with it and equip our children with the tools that will make them more competitive on a global scale….the better it will be for Malaysia and Malaysians. The step that the govt took twds this by teaching Science n Math in English was a positive step in that direction. However, it was implemented literally over-night with no serious consideration as to the severe limitations that the teaching staff would have to over-come….namely, the younger generation of teachers were all solely, BM educated and were not equipped to teach in English. As usual, it was a hare-brained, hastely thought out approach by the govt. What the govt should have done is inform Malaysians abt this new change, train the teaching staff, get the correct text and work books to facilitate this. Once all this was done, then only should it hv been implemented. This should have been done over a period of time….like a 3yr plan or such NOT an overnight decision which was poorly planned n executed and totalitarian in its approach!!!!
However, reverting back to BM is NOT an option as it just takes the country backwards not forwards!!! The solution would be a total re-vamping of the education system with Malaysians having the choice of attending English based national schools OR BM based national schools. In the English based schools, BM should be be made a mandatory 2nd language with Chinese or Tamil offered as an option for a 3rd language and in the BM based schools, English should be made a mandatory 2nd language as well. It really is that simple!!! This formula has been tried n tested n proved very successful in countries like India which has so many different languages albeit one race though.
Btw, the Chinese schools continue to teach Science n Math in BOTH Chinese and English
The school exams papers are set for 70% Chinese and 30% English…for the UPSR, the kids hv the option of choosing their language of choice. In effect, the Chinese schools hv circumvented this system really 
Errrm….sorry for my extremely lengthy comments
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 9:07 am
NH was referring to Lifehire’s comment.
You are not referring to me when you mentioned Uitm right? I am not a product of Uitm, but if UTM then that is my alma matter. Well, I can edit the comment for you if you intended it that way.
Superficial and missing the wood for the trees. Interesting. This post is not directed specifically to any individual I know that happened to be in the same profession that I lashed out above. I actually singled out ‘lousy’ teachers, so good teachers can sleep well.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 9:09 am
Apa ni bro, copy and paste from NH’s blog and recycle it here
Kan dah kena tangkap haha!
Your idea is a bit ‘messy’. Using English text books, but do the teaching in BM? That’s a radical idea, but worth considered but I doubt that the students and teachers have the time to play ‘translation’ while studying Maths and Science.
Stick with one language, start it at earliest education age possible.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 9:27 am
You have a point there – ‘There are not enough grounded (patriotic, language-lover, etc) Malaysians to keep the language alive’.
Let us pay revisit history here. The usage of BM as the medium of instrution started in 1970, and by 1983 the whole school system was using Bahasa Malaysia as the medium of instruction before me reverted to English for Science and Math in 2003.
Close to 30 years of using BM as medium of instruction, did we achieve anything? Why the standard of BM among our politicians, especially Chinese and Indians still poor? (I am all for doing away with vernacular schools) Are we less patriotic or more patriotic after all this years? I doubt that patriotism has much to do with the language you master.
So, the problem lies with the implementation, not the language. Any language is relevant for teaching, if it’s not teaching the language itself. But, regarding the ‘efficiency of BM or English’ among Malaysian, we shall take a look at the syllabus of the subject itself and implementations carried out to improve the standard.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 9:29 am
Should I explain sarcasm and my self poking rituals that I did for most of my posts?
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 9:35 am
Very interesting. This is something new.
Hmm, English itself is a growing language, a mumbo jumbo collections of words from many languages – Latin, Spanish, Arab, etc. I doubt anyone can claim English as their ‘national’ language of some sort anymore.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 9:50 am
Thanks for dropping by and your lengthy comment is much appreciated.
I am with you on ‘leader by example’ to improve the standards of BM. I remember the time when Anwar Ibrahim was the Minister, after he gave his speeches or statements, people would dig into their dictionaries for the meaning of the words he used and some journalists even discussed some of the words he used in their weekly columns. Mahathir is another person that gives good speeches in BM.
If only we have more leaders that can lead by example. Definitely not the one that uttered ‘you bloody bastard’ in the parliament.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 10:03 am
I am glad we share the same idea. Just one type of school – national school and stick with just one language as medium of instruction with options for other languages to be used as 2nd, 3rd language. In any instance, BM must be made mandatory for students in order not to lose its importance.
ps: I shall make you part of my think tank if I become the Minister of Education one day
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suituapui wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 10:25 am
If you will go deep into the reasons as to why they are lousy, you may unearth a lot more…and would probably realise that actually, they are not the ones to blame. Like you and me, they just need a job and money…same as engineers whose bridges collapse and flyovers crack! Can’t blame them too as there’s a lot more behind the story too!!!
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suituapui wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 10:29 am
Lord have mercy!
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 10:39 am
That’s another issue to talk about – ‘Why there are lousy’.
I am writing based on my own opinion and observation, it my be flawed. But it should not be construed as attacking any individual, or group. I have to make it clear that I choose to ‘blame’ these people for certain reasons:
1. The government for ignoring meritocracy, hence the substandard students, that one day will become teachers, engineers, doctors, politicians. This is not an attack on teaching profession.
2. Teachers. Since this post is about education, of course I will find the responsible parties. Teachers are second in my list to ‘blame’. But this must be looked in the context, ‘lousy teachers’. There are many good teachers out there, I owe my living to many great teachers imparting their valuable knowledge to me.
I left out the students, because in my own experience students are immature, it is up to the teachers to guide them. This again, if we want to bring up the issues of ‘lousy students’, that is why we need to uphold the meritocracy system, my 1st point.
Yes, everyone need a job and money, who doesn’t? But, just because a person needs a job and money but he/she is not qualified for the job, he/she should be given the job.
There’s lot more behind the stories on why they are lousy I am sure, but I can’t cover everything in this lousy blog of mine.
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snv wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:00 am
Thanks for the pointing that out. I’ll keep it in mind.
I agree with the last paragraph.
And purely for imaginative thinking, it would be great if we could put everyone in a bubble, revamp the system, and have everyone come back to a whole new upgraded version. But of course, this is probably a storyline for some sci-fi films.
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suituapui wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:10 am
UTM’s better than UiTM, I gather. A lot of my students got to go to UTM, including the one you met in Sibu (Hey! He’s in Miri!)…and blogger danielliew has an excellent command of the English language.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:12 am
I love Battlestar Galactica and I read Battlefield Earth 3 times. I hope I am not becoming a loony like L. Ron Hubbard.
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:20 am
UTM has quite high quality student intake, because previously the student selection was done was based on the SPM result. Only top of the cream (especially Non-Bumi students) can enter UTM. It is very common to find straight As students there, mostly those that can’t afford private education.
This screwed up system of student intake based on STPM, Matriculation, SPM, Diploma is another topic to bitch about. I am inclined to say STPM students back in my days were those who couldn’t make it to public universities because of their average result or no money for private education or those inspired to be laywers and doctors as you cannot take medical or law courses with only SPM.
He is in Miri? I hope we didn’t scare him badly that he’s reluctant to meet me
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suituapui wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:21 am
You left out 1 thing – nobody (or almost! Yes, there are some VERY good and dedicated [young] teachers around!) wants to be a teacher. Everybody who’s any good at their studies wants to be a doctor, engineer, accountant etc etc etc…so most who become teachers come from the bottom of the barrel. I also know of those who wanted to become teachers but the parents objected.
This is a more crucial problem than what language they have to teach which subjects in! Chinese primary schools here are pulling back the very very old teachers because they do not have anybody to teach the language. The teachers’ insitute in Kedah, I gathered, wanted to open THREE classes (to train Chinese teachers) and barely had enough for ONE! So very few applied! Schools are crying our for MORE teachers; how to have more when nobody wants to be a teacher. I won’t too…considering that I get the blame for anything and everything!
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:30 am
Sadly, I must agree with you.
No many inspiring to be a teacher nowadays. No idea since when the mentality of a good student should better be a doctor, engineer, accountant etc. The perks is not that good, given the shits the teachers need to wade. Teaching is the most noble profession, and the government should do something about the profession. (Again?.. Yea..)
I have many friends with good results, bright students opting to be teachers/lecturers instead, by choice. Well, mostly went to private institution for obvious reason.
You will not be blamed, and should not take the blame since your are not part of the ‘lousy teachers’ I mentioned. You know that.
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Woof-woof wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:40 am
Errrm…Bong, I said 2 types of schools actually. Just one type alone wud not work
Rural Malaysia wud never go for it, I feel. So u need to give them an option which will please all 
One wud be English based national schools n the other wud be BM based national schools. In both scenarios, students wud be proficient in English as well as BM.
Tell you what….I’ll be the Education Minister and u can be part of my think tank
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:43 am
Oh, I got you. Thanks for the clarifications
Good idea, really. Write it in to Malaysiakini, The Star :up:
Since I made a boo boo here.. I’ll let you take the post. Think tank and talk cock I can do… Hehe..
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Woof-woof wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Errm…*blush, blush*…I’m the original author of ‘All fart, No shit’ rmbr?
Send it in to Mkini, Bong…its truly a worthy piece :up:
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sbanboy wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Wow a long post with a lots of comments.
Anyway … keep sharing man
Take k
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bongkersz wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Ah
I did a post on ‘All fart, No shit’. Damn good phrase.. HAHAHA! I need to tidy it up before sending it up anywhere. 
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NoktahHitam wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 1:14 pm
copy paste from your blog? whats the point? I read dandelions lah
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missjolie wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 1:36 pm
A very thought provoking article with many strong points put out! I thoroughly enjoyed this! Here’s what I think…
After reading everything, including the comments. Judging from some of the comments, I noticed some are still concerned with the issue of Malaysia’ identity thus insisting on the BM based national school. This is the short sightedness we don’t need. Pardon me for saying fellas but I think we have to look beyond this for the good of all. It’s not like we are abandoning the language for French or Chinese. After all, if you look around, most Malaysians still choose to converse in their mother tongues, English, chinese dialects, Iban, etc… where is the proof of unity, the sense of Malaysian identity itis supposed to imbue in us by introducing BM as our national language in all public schools? In fact, if you ask me, it has only cause more rift and confusion and deterioration amongst malaysians.
I say we revert to what we had in the sixties/early seventies. Prior to the BIG CHANGE which is taking us further back to a decline in quality of our new students. We did SO well then with an english based national school with BM as a compulsory language. We followed the British system and we did VERY well.
Why did they have to make the change? Who made the change? This audacious leader obviously knew by doing this, it would be the start of a very long career for one superior race. That’s how it works. The more united the malaysians are, the worse off it is for the self centred politicians. It all started out as a political ploy to racially divide the multiracial Malaysia.
If you observe the students’ standards and quality prior to BM being used as national language in 1977 (for Sarawak that is, I’m not sure when this conversion took effect in West Malaysia). You will note the difference in quality of students prior to that and then now. I am a product of the change and I was schooled in BM. When I went overseas for my tertiary studies, I did suffer the change in language initially. Everyone I knew did and complained. This not only meant we had to do work harder but it prevented many from excelling. The language was a huge barrier for many I knew.
My English language was considered one of the BEST in my class, overseas, it meant nothing really. The way English was taught overseas is vastly different from the way it is taught in Malaysia. I was one of the few Asians accepted into main stream English as a subject (spared from ESL-english second language)which involved plenty of writing, dissertations and etc…but nevertheless, I still suffered.
Malaysians from that era when English was their national language in schools are not only more articulate in English (to this day), but write and read far better. I have relatives from the era, going to universities abroad and they managed to get far more our of their overseas education because there was no barrier. It was a smooth transition for them. Naturally this meant, they could reach their full potential with much ease. I recall an uncle who went to Monash exclaiming, how breezy it was for him as an engineering student then.
Bahasa Malaysia was merely a compulsory language then. Yet, you don’t see Malays from that era speaking any less Malay. Nor are they any more unidentifiable when it comes to their identity. In fact, Malays from the era prior to the switch, advantaged from this as well. I know one elderly Malay man who is today a dean at a university reminisce of the good old days when English was the main medium used in all schools. This respected Malay man eventually went on to Harvard and has a PHD in political science. This is what I’m talking about. The importance of English as our national language used provides us boundless opportunities to soar!
It would be ideal to also have optional subjects such as, Religion, Mandarin, Tamil, etc…this would cater to the different needs. For instance, a malay student, can opt for islam and a chinese student for mandarin and indian tamil and so forth…just a rough example. Everyone is happy and our individual needs are met.
Whether we like it or not, we have to face the inherent and inevitable global challenges. Or we can continue to choose to hide under the coconut shell or sit in our well, and pretend we don’t hear or see the decaying house our coconut shell sits on! Eventually the decaying house will bring the coconut shell (that so nicely protects our insular minds) come crashing down as well.
In the end, it’s no win win situation for anybody and definitely NOT out country except the ruling party’s who’s ulterior motives are as you all know to racially divide us as far as possible. And how do you achieve this? Language of course.
Oh my god. this has gone for far too long. it seems almost like a post. pardon the typos, randomly typing out my thoughts here….anyway, gotto go. thanks for a thought provoking post bongkersz!bravo!
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NoktahHitam wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Very insightful. Pardon my short sightedness. But I still would like to stand firm on my beliefs
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missjolie wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 2:50 pm
ooops, no offence Noktah Hitam
not directing at you! just my way of expression 
yes i can see where you and the rest are coming from but for me, i prefer the tried and tested formula which was a proven success !:) cheers!
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Sweet Thinker wrote on Nov 18, 2008 at 3:20 pm
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missjolie wrote on Nov 21, 2008 at 12:21 pm
is this how you link?
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Khairul Affendi wrote on Nov 22, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Malay to English Translator Software.
Lingovista
http://lingovista.googlepages.com/default.htm
TQ
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wawa440khz wrote on Jan 12, 2009 at 11:28 pm
good points Bong(it is what happen in Singapore but we are late for 20-30years),
a. Use english as medium in education.
b. One national school.
To Minitry of Education: “Sometime “unpopular” policy is necessary..you have done so many research and you have most reliable information to make the decision..and the people doesn’t have…believe in ourself and show people the results..if a leader doesn’t “lead” the people…what is a leader?”
What is the good for the people of malaysia if Bahasa Melayu is the national language?it will give you wealth??or peace in the country?economy progress??give aid to poor people??No..it will only produce a generation of “immigrant” who speak fluent malay…
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Conspiracy wrote on Feb 18, 2009 at 12:19 am
For the leaders who are promulgating BM for science and maths, I wonder what language their children are studying in?
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Jenifer wrote on Mar 27, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I would like to get exam papers for Bahasa Melayu, English, Maths and Science. (Maths and Science in English). If you can, please email the questions to my email address as mention above.
I need it desperathly.
Thank you.
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Anonymous wrote on May 23, 2009 at 10:24 pm
but why
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from Perak wrote on May 23, 2009 at 10:26 pm
I think math and science in english is new world to me.
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Qien_@18cer wrote on May 24, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Ectually.,.maths and science in english is difficult but we must try to learnt that coz at collage or university (ipta) want maths or science must credit.so…you must study hard for your exam.
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Daddy Parenting Tips wrote on Jul 10, 2009 at 7:52 pm
My daughter is less than 2 years old and she can understand both English and Japanese, and later will introduce Malay, Mandarin and Cantonese.
http://daddyparentingtips.blogspot.com/2009/07/tip-161-reading-in-both-languages.html
I can’t see why we cannot take 1 step forward to integrate the BM textbooks few years back with the current English science and maths text books. Its a lot of effort, but why move backward instead of forward. We can allow students to use either English or BM to answer in the exams as long as the maths and science principles are correct.
Some good will surely come out of the dialectics at work between both languages instead of choosing either one. We need new advancements. We need Malaysia Boleh. Not some power struggle between languages.
When will Malaysia advance and not hold on to race and language as stumbling blocks but embrace our differences as advantages?
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bongkersz wrote on Jul 13, 2009 at 9:01 am
@Daddy Parenting Tips, a very good point there. To implement that, 1st we must have good teachers/resources. Else, it will be just good enough on paper, right? You are absolutely right that we should have this ‘power struggle’ between languages. The longer we drag this issue, more we are at disadvantage.
I look forward when we Malaysians embrace our differences as advantages instead of bickering over superiority fallacy and rigid ideologies.
Thanks for dropping by!
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UR companion wrote on Oct 6, 2009 at 2:54 am
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU BONGKERZ..since i ever been see how the selection of the student to became the teacher…yes we know that people don`t have same level of cleverness but seems like they just choose the people(ex-candidate of spm)with a poor result n at the same time most of the parents also support their children go to maktab perguruan as this offer already promise for better job. but the point here..this is the started of all the prob..that is the producing of unqualified teachers.. seems like you go to maktab to make sure you not became a job-seekers not to say that the people those who get poor result in SPm n go to maktab n cannot improve there but the problem is`t they really can be a teacher that can make sure each of their student have a better understanding when they are teaching…i ever learn i mean have a class from foreign teacher..she is from england..every time we having our english class she always come with some rapprochement that can cause the student interest to learn about the boring grammar and the other else about B.I..her style encourage student and i never been fill like this when I go to an ORDINARY teacher Except when i go to St school..
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Alchemist wrote on Nov 10, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Erm, aren’t the SPM Science and Maths papers in both English and Bahasa at the moment? Why not leave it up to the schools (or the teachers) to teach their students in the language in which they are most comfortable? or possibly offer it as an option if they have the teachers for it…
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bongkersz Reply:
November 10th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
@Alchemist, you’re on a roll eh?
Commenting on few posts at once ehe. Thanks for the comments, appreciate much!
Leave it to the school is a wise decision, because the school should know what is best for their students. What we need is more choices for students to choose from and that’s what we are lacking of now.
Yes, you can have schools teaching in English, Malay, Chinese, Indian for those subjects but reality is. in Malaysia (assuming most of those students end up studying and working here) courses and technical references, even the fields requiring competency in those subjects are dominated by English language. Naturally it is easier to start with those language.
The point is to do it early. Not halfway. Children have great learning capability and we often underestimate them.
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emilie wrote on Jan 22, 2010 at 12:07 pm
what the fuck is this crap? that malays dont understand english and we need to change it to bm in order to let the malays score well in sc and maths? if they dont understand english words, there are the dictionaries in front of them. if they are too lazy just to turn a few pages, then this is the very reason why english is changed to bm. if they want to improve themselves, dont change the language. if the authorities are selfish and just think bout the malays n the bm, then its not 1 malaysia anymore. this concept can be banished at any time now. malaysia will never ever succeed forever if the authorities are selfish and just think bout those foolish and stupid things bout malays and bahasa melayu.
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varisha wrote on Jan 25, 2010 at 8:57 pm
plz,changing bi to bm iz not de corect solution for diz prob coz de next generation should move faster than we r duin right now,so that we can compete with other countries such as russia.
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